In Your Corner Wearing White

In your corner wearing white, from the realm of the big angels, our number one contender.    Today we  will discuss Supernatural, Seeker Sensitive Churches, what they do, what they say and what they might not be disclosing to you outright. This writing is broken into three rounds first the background and second the challenge of professed end time views  and the unveiling.

I’ve heard before is it not good practice to criticize or speak about another ministry in a negative manner.  I am sure it goes back to verses  Mark 9:38-41.

 38 John said to Him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us.” 39 But Jesus said, “Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. 40 For he who is not against us is for us.

 However, two verses later, this is just as powerful as the first.

42 “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea.

But what do you do if you see something or hear something that completely goes against what you know to be true.  What do you say when an underlying belief is not readily told. Do you sit idly by say nothing and move on, or do you shout at the top of your lungs. The answer is yes to all and everything in between.  If you are pursuing Christ with all your heart and all your mind you will know what to do.  As I was discussing this  topic with someone they said, “Be careful, Judge not lest you be Judged. ” I jumped up and said, “No!! I can’t be afraid to be judged by Jesus.  This is exactly what Satan wants.  If he can get Christians to remain silent  about erred theologies or  teachings, then he wins.”

The purpose of this article is not shame people from leaving their church home, but to inform and provide a view into how some churches hold  views that actually might go against God’s plan as laid out in the Bible if that is your source of authority, to discern what is being said, but also realize what is not being said.  This is hard to write since many of my close friends listen to the people I will shortly discuss.

Satan is real, if we can agree on that, then you should also know that his methods can blind a congregation.   I don’t think I need to pull out Bible verses for that.  However, when we start hearing statements that make your head  pop up and seem to be a bit out of phase,  how are we to  deal with this, because as Paul said in Ephesians 6:12.

  12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

 I believe we need to seek and follow the Truth at any cost. Truth at times does not look like hope.  I want people to shoot straight with me and I don’t like being played, or have things withheld because , “Oh he might not understand.”  I come from a position that I prefer to tithe into ministries that are on the front lines and do not have brick and mortar to maintain.  Once the building becomes a small university, there is a natural need to do what is necessary to keep the lights on.  And the while services provide for the needs of the congregations the essence of a nice community center can become more than the original intent.  In many cases, priorities can be misplaced while doing the right thing and the message toned down into soft ball messages.

But what happens when you hear messages that fascinate you and you see signs and wonder that can only be from God then one day, you see or hear something that gives you pause.  This is what I hope to bring forward.  Once  we recognize  something, we have to determine what we are to  do with it.  We need to approach the Father and listen to the still small voice inside.   If your concern is creating a deeper relationship with Jesus, then there should be no problem protecting that relationship with Him at any cost, if that issue centers around that.  As we discuss this topic, I warn you that your best defense, is to pray, refer to the Bible and ask Holy Spirit for direction.

When I went through this with another  ministry similar to  this, I stopped tithing immediately, formally withdrew from all groups I participated in that fell under the “covering” of  the teacher and I repented.    I can say that God’s favor has increased on my life ever since. That group is still moving forward in their teachings  and I am just a faint memory.  Some of my friends continue to accept the underlying beliefs held by the teacher, while trying to wrap their heads around the parts that go beyond thier biblical understanding,  I believe they are treading on spiritually dangerous waters.  However, I still pray for my friends and hope that they  will find God’s truth. I have no intention of  cutting off my ties, because I have still have a responsibility to bring the Good News to all.  I can only live by example and hopefully the fruits of my walk and Holy Spirit will assist in finding their way.

I ask  Holy Spirit to breathe life into this writing, so eyes can be opened and  that you will also ask questions of your Father in Heaven, just as I did.   I also pray, that Holy Spirit will guide us straight to Jesus and place us back on course if we have wavered.

But I will not sit by and let  this slip by unexaminded, NOT THIS!!

Round One

I see a very dangerous trend with Supernatural Seeker Sensitive Churches that promote sign and wonders as the magnet. I am starting to realize that some  have  a hidden doctrine of either Dominion Theology, Replacement Theology or New Apostolic Reformation Theology coupled with a no judgment zone and in many cases a combination of all three.  It is hard to distinguish the differences of the theologies, but at this point if you can spot some high level indicators, it should be enough to ask some basic questions and get plum with Jesus, which is the goal.   You have to ask yourself, do I want to follow these movements?  In my opinion, they can lead a men away from Jesus.

Dominion Theology-The beliefs held by these leaders think that it is the duty of Christians to create a worldwide kingdom patterned after the Mosaic Law. They further believe that Christ will not return to earth until such a kingdom has been established.

http://www.gotquestions.org/dominion-theology.html

Replacement Theology-Replacement theology teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Proponents of replacement theology believe the Jewish people  are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel.

http://www.gotquestions.org/replacement-theology.html

New Apostolic Reformation(NAR)- is a movement which asserts that God is restoring the lost offices of church governance, namely the offices of prophet and apostle. Leading figures in this movement claim that these prophets and apostles alone have the power and authority to execute God’s plans and purposes on earth. They believe they are laying the foundation for a global church, governed by them. They place a greater emphasis on dreams, visions and extra-biblical revelation than they do on the Bible, claiming that their revealed teachings and reported experiences can not be proven by the ‘old’ Scripture.

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/794-new-apostolic-reformation-2

http://standupforthetruth.com/2011/11/nar-is-another-name-for-dominionism/

If you wrap them all up this is called Victorious Eschatology, sounds wonderful doesn’t it.

In all that I have researched,  Dominion Theology and NAR seem to walk hand in hand.  Within NAR we have men that have come believe they are the answer to a fallen church and under their guidance they can lead the church back to its glory. They believe  they are the newly chosen ones of God and their revelation, guidance and authority will create God’s kingdom on Earth.  If you happen to get insight into the inner circle it will reveal that these men, like similar ministries, believe that modern apostles have an extraordinary amount of authority that Christians must submit to or be outside of the will of God.  They mainly fall into the realm of large independent churches, but their books are seen in Christian bookstores everywhere.

Let us understand that Paul, a true apostle of Christ,  never claimed to possess this type authority over God’s people. He also never taught or sought to exercise such dominion/authority over the people. Contrary to that the apostle Paul said:

“Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.” 2 Corinthians 1:24

Judgment is the lightning rod of the church today and also the dividing line!  So if you are hard pressed to hear messages of Judgment or Fear of the Lord an inquiry on your part isn’t far off.  (A bit of squirming in your seat is a good thing, it keeps us grounded in Christ.)

Currently, God has placed one of these churches in my field of vision. This church is luring many into its fold with  teachings designed to activate your supernatural gifts, prophetic abilities, spiritual authority at your finger tips. Gifts, they say, you are not taking advantage of in your walk with Christ, that have been given to you.    Wonderful messages of hope are heard, coupled with all the things you can do once you unlock your prophetic or healing abilities.   Language about judgment and fear of the lord are rarely heard or are spoken of in past tense.

My current writings were jumped started, when my friend posted the  Unknown Prophet’s End of the World views on Facebook, which are on his website.    Prior to December, I had no idea who this person was. I keep away from many of the “leading spiritual leaders” that people flock to, for the Lord is my Shepherd.  My first response was when I read that post was, where is the truth in that?   Round Two will discuss those points.

The Church, the Unknown Prophet resides at,  is a very successful church, that attracts many people and  is very successful pulling in the younger crowd. It has a well oiled marketing machine that promotes instruction on various topics: prophetic training, a supernatural school of ministry, a healing ministry, new books being released it seems like all the time, DVD’s, podcast, music and they are making their way into every facet of Christendom.

The Unknown Apostle ( who has led this church for over 30 years) and Unknown Prophet, his number 1,  provide on a daily basis a litany of one  liners that can inspire you to think differently about this fallen world and their core beliefs (It is hard to find Bible quotes in either of their Facebook postings).  They promote wonderful hope filled anecdotes that inspire and, I must say, very clever words of wisdom that describe the happy the path of life, but discourage negative thoughts.  (I will explain later). Their worship will knock your socks off.  At first glance, its all about Jesus, but the underlying theme  here is, this is your one stop shop for all your missionary and supernatural needs, they will guide you through it all.  A lot of great  people I love are drawn to this, for the right reason, to get closer to Christ.

If you are actually following Jesus and not just talking about Him, I would remind you that Jesus said Holy Spirit would be all we needed once he left.

   John 14_ 26“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things,

 Are we going to say that all of a sudden that statement is not true. That now there is someone who is appointed by God to lead guide and direct you now and if you can’t hear the answer from Holy Spirit then this is where you turn.  If all you hear from a pulpit is that God wants you to unlock your spiritual gifts and all you have to do is tap into it, well that sounds absolutely wonderful.  But is that what God says or wants for you? Or are these words from a man that says this is what God wants for you.  Providing words of knowledge sounds awesome and everyone wants to be the prophet, but is that what YOU want for yourself instead of what God wants for?  If so, the latest Advanced Prophetic Teaching is available, now.  Get the book, DVD, leader guide, audiobook, and curriculum guide.  In just a few short weeks you can……….learn  from the Unknown Prophet so that you can unlock you prophetic ability.

If you think I am way out of tune, in matters of spiritual deception, I would rather air on the side of caution, but this is how these teachings are advertised.  I spent time in a cult and practiced this stuff in the name of Jesus. There is a slightly different bow on the present, Christian Mysticism. But the end result is the same, what can I do spiritually?  What can I unlock? What can I do for the good of the people, of course.  I studied, I meditated and believed I could unlock the mysteries of the spirit realm around me.  The heavenly realms, a place you can only go once you die, a place the traditional churches worked hard to keep me from,  did not want me to experience what was accessible to me, today.  I was only trying to learn about things the “church” wasn’t sharing.  A lot of people who have been hurt by churches in their past will naturally gravitate to this, me included. Once again this maybe true, but how you access Heaven while you are alive is God’s decision not yours.

This is dangerous stuff and this Unknown Prophet states,  that as a people we have chosen to live with less than Jesus has paid for, then jump right into the supernatural lingo.  I know first hand what this can do and while I was getting slowly hooked on the spiritual power I was tapping into, I drifted farther from God into Satan’s arms one lesson at a time, all in the name of Jesus and unlocking my spiritual potential.

Ask yourself this, if your heart is not plum with God and you start asking questions in the spirit realm based on the teachings of someone other than Holy Spirit and have your feelers our for a word of knowledge, whom might respond?  If you are then providing a word to someone that is not theirs and they make a decision based on your word that causes them to stumble,  Do you have a responsibility in that?   If you start counting the number of healings you have performed, has this become the healing “I am” performing or God is performing, eventually without a Fear of Lord imbedded in your heart we all know the answer.

A no judgment zone is fertile ground for an unchecked heart.

Yes you can’t control what people do, but if you believe you are appointed by God  to impart new revelatory knowledge and convince your followers they can do something that you profess Jesus said they could do , just by reading  the book or attending a supernatural school, well who is fooling who.  I go back to Mark 9:42.

 42 “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea.

 As a church leader, If you make statements about what you can do in the spirit realm and teach that it is open to all and provide training materials for the like, it seems like a formula to me. God is not about formulas.   I stress I did this in my past with the Rosicrucian Cosmo Conception as noted above.  I know first hand what I experienced and it scared me to death once I actually experienced the spirit realm and I turned instantly turn away.   If I am interpreting the Bible properly, Jesus, Paul and many of  the prophets all warned people what would happen if they strayed from God and practiced spiritual principles outside of God’s measure.   The Old Testament has stiff language around this topic and God does not change.

When I have gone to the Unnamed Apostle’s website the words I hear in my mind is,  “How can this be bad?”  RED FLAG   If it is too good to be true it isn’t. There is an appetite a human being has for knowledge since the Garden of Eden. I could feel the pull for more knowledge visiting this website.  I was drawn to the beauty and glamour of it even after the insight I will share with you as we continue.

But according to the ministries this unnamed church offers, I believe a very fine line is being walked.  Before you say, do you even know what the schools are about? I pray the Lord’s Prayer; “lead me not into temptation.” However, just so you don’t think I am opposed to spiritual gifting’s,  I have had split second visions, impressions, promptings to do things for Christ, speak in tongues, seen gold dust materialize on people, seen feathers appear, and have had gems appear in our house and my grandfather’s watch start ticking after 30 years prior to my preforming my grandmother’s eulogy right after we prayed in preparation.  But it is my pursuit of God that unlocks the grace of those gifts.  I never tried to activate or force a sign. They happened in a course of a day while calling on God.  I don’t try to fine tune my supernatural skills for God’s glory, the only skill I work on is work on being quiet for Jesus.   I only want what God wants for me and I don’t chase signs and wonders.  Satan is the great imitator and he will copy what God does.   It all comes downs to what is behind the curtain and that is what I am here to really discuss.

I have learned more in the past few months than I have in a very long time, I am grateful for these two men and the like. While  the Unknown Prophet will  tell you on his website what he doesn’t believe in as it pertains to his Eschatology,  I can tell you, that I have been strengthened in what I believe in and have been drawn closer the Word and Holy Spirit as my basis for truth.

I have no doubt at the onset of their ministries the plum line with God was straight with these men, but just like with King Uzziah from 2 Chronicles 26, spiritual blessings over time does not equal spiritual license.  If you stray only one degree over time you will miss the mark.  So while followers may have followed these man for many years, if they changed their beliefs midway, believe they are one of a few self appointed apostle and prophet and did not state these views in a clear concise manner but  started changing their messaging to conform to their beliefs,  who is being fooled.

Round Two

On Super Bowl Sunday during worship, I asked a question of God.

How can the Unknown Apostle say,  “Any thought that doesn’t inspire hope is influenced in a lie.” and not contradict Jesus.  With a statement like that the Unnamed Apostle is saying if any thought is contrary to hope  it must be a lie. I can further add  influenced by Satan who is the Father of Lies.  WOW,  there is no room for Christ’s 7 Woe’s in Matthew 23. If our Unknown Apostle and Prophet are part of the NAR movement, then they would believe  they have spiritual license to push forward agendas not laid out in the Bible, because of the new revelation they are receiving.    Is this a clearer understanding of the Word or totally new insight that is not found in the Bible.  I am not saying it can’t happen, but revelations I receive confirm God’s presence  and the Word never contradicts it. If it does I have my own mentors I discuss things with to ensure I am on target.

As I kept asking the question,  God gave me the answer. I jumped up. I couldn’t believe how simple it was.  So  we are going review the Unknown Prophet’s end worlds views. He has stated.   Jesus said even the “elect” can be deceived, and when we are done hopefully you will see what God showed me. I also pray the Holy Spirit will convict all of us of the Truth, and that we all have the strength to hear the truth and change if Holy Spirit guides us.

I will list, you decide.

 I will not embrace an end-time worldview that re-empowers a disempowered devil.

  •  Rev 13-What about the Beast of the Sea and the Beast from the Earth?  What about the Beast rising from a fatal wound as written on verse 12. (This is in the future)
  • Rev 19:20 What about when Jesus throws them into the Lake of Fire. (This is in the future)
  • Satan is certainly empowered in the book of Revelation, prior to his demise.
  • Paul said the that our battle is not with the flesh but with Powers and Principalities, just because you refuse acknowledge Satan doesn’t mean Satan is not there.
  • Also, Revelation speaks of the rise of the Anti-Christ and The Christ will send him to the abyss.  The Devil has been empowered by God on Earth since before the fall. Satan even tempted Jesus. Before his resurrection and rose from the dead, Jesus went into the Earth and retrieved the keys from Satan He did not lock him up or threw him into the abyss..
  • I do not know all the mysteries of why Satan is here, but all indications are he is empowered and God allows it for now.
  • How would this view change a message from the pulpit, if we do not acknowledge the devil’s presence. What exactly are we looking out for?

I will not accept an eschatology that takes away my children’s future, and creates mindsets that undermine the mentality of leaving  a legacy.

  •  1 John 2:15-16 15 Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.
  • Matthew 6:1 “Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.
  • These words are not more powerful than Jesus’ but sound clever’. The future is set in the 7 promises of God, which we will discuss later.  If you don’t believe a tribulation is coming, then this statement would oppose those that do.  Which goes to the other end of the spectrum that think that all we need to do is wait for Jesus to take us away, do nothing while we wait for His return and let everything fall to ruin until then.  A balance is required here.
  • My Hope is in Jesus and what he wants for me to do on  Earth as His servant.   Jesus is coming. I do not know the hour so I must be ready.   If I am working on a legacy my focus is misplaced.
  • The Unknown Prophet’s had a teaching on Esther and the video teaser said, We will learn how to walk as royalty so that we may influence the influential. This leans towards Dominionism and places the burden on us for Christ’s return so the church can be built prior to Christ’s return through a legacy.
  •  I am reminded of an Indiana Jones movie, near the end as they were searching for  the Holy Grail, the bad dude  had to choose one of the many chalices on display and he picked the one that had jewels on it, and said, Yes this a cup for a God, drank from it and died. The correct one was just a plain clay cup.
  • All we can do is our part, Jesus performs the orchestration. We need to teach our children to be as meek as lambs and wise as serpents.
  •  Jesus says our treasure is in Heaven. If you want to build it on Earth, who are you trying to impress. The tower of Babel comes to mind.
    •  Gen 11:4-8. They said, “Come, let us build for ourselves a city, and a tower whose top will reach into heaven, and let us make for ourselves a name, otherwise we will be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.” The Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. The Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them. Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech.” So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of the whole earth; and they stopped building the city.
  • The only legacy that I should be worried about is the one that is written  in the book of Life.

 I will not tolerate any theology that sabotages the clear command of Jesus to make disciples of all nations and the Lord’s Prayer that earth would be like heaven.

 

  •  Hmmmmm, “I will not tolerate” sounds like  judgment will be passed to those that disagree with him.  I wonder how that plays out if you take that statement out in time.  How do you walk out the phrase I will not tolerate.  Especially if you are also saying you want to influence the influential. (Could this be Dominion Theology Coupled with NAR?)
  • The Lord’s Prayer is our prayer to God. If you look at from that perspective, we ask to have Him reveal His Will to us on Earth as it is in Heaven.  If we all do our part then God accomplishes what He wants, not us.
  • Exodus 19:9-11 tells us how to prepare for God if He is to be among us. Which we should never forget.
  • The Lord’s prayer does not say “like heaven”  this is a twist of the Word to achieve this church’s goal not God’s!  We need to understand God’s will through the prayer not come up with a theology to promote.
  • This Church’s whole marketing campaign is based on this twist of the second half of this sentence and taking the Will of God out of it. This the prayer as i know it.
    • “Pray, then, in this way: ‘Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name.10 ‘Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.11 ‘Give us this day our daily bread.12 ‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.13 ‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.’
  • All nations can be a people. Jesus always spoke to the person. That is our charge.  Jesus and His disciples operated under the govt’s that ruled over them, never tried to change them but  the hearts of men.
  • I can’t force men to be disciple’s I can only bring the Word. When Jesus returns, all nations will bow to Him whether they believed in Him before or not.
  • Even Jesus knew that people still had a choice to believe or not and heeded this warning.
    • Matthew 11:20-24   20 Then He began to denounce the cities in which most of His miracles were done, because they did not repent. 21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.22 Nevertheless I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. 23 And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day.24 Nevertheless I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for you.”
    • Luke 9:5-6   And as for those who do not receive you, as you go out from that city, shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them.”Departing, they began going throughout the villages, preaching the gospel and healing everywhere.

I will not allow any interpretation of the scriptures that destroys hope for the nations and undermines our command to restore ruined cities.

  •  Curious- what does “I will not allow” mean?  Seems harsh I just want to say,  What are you going to do about it?  I sense trouble if you don’t agree with Him.   Not to be coy, but when I hear this type of language I get of picture of someone sitting on a throne, with a scepter in hand ruling. Again how does this play out understanding the definition. (Again Dominionism and NAR, by his authority).
  •  Based on your own choices you reap what you sow. If a nation turns from God,  how can anyone expect the Lord’s favor. The Scriptures don’t lie, our Hope is in Jesus and there is no Hope if you turn from Him. You need to offer Hope with a warning.
  • Revelation talks about God’s wrath in an effort to turn hearts towards Him.  I did not say it, He did.
  • We must bring the good news,  but at some point we need to shake the dust from our shoes and be thankful we got the message from all the prophets warnings.
    • Luke 9:5  And as for those who do not receive you, as you go out from that city, shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them.”Departing, they began going throughout the villages, preaching the gospel and healing everywhere.
    • Luke 10:8-12  Whatever city you enter and they receive you, eat what is set before you; and heal those in it who are sick, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’10 But whatever city you enter and they do not receive you, go out into its streets and say, 11 ‘Even the dust of your city which clings to our feet we wipe off in protest against you; yet be sure of this, that the kingdom of God has come near.’ 12 I say to you, it will be more tolerable in that day for Sodom than for that city.
  • Matthew 11:20-24 (above)

 I will not embrace an eschatology that changes the nature of a good God.

  •  Something I can agree on in principle, however what is the definition of Good?
  • God’s love is broken down in five layer’s (Word at Work Ministries) as seen throughout the Bible.  I don’t how you can miss this is part, but as a whole here it is.
    • Forgiveness-Acceptance of His Love
    • Forbearance-God allows you to work your way into repentance
    • Warnings-Coupled with a message of redemption
    • Chastening/Affliction-Fatherly correction imposed by God not us
      •  Not to be confused with adversity which Satan uses
    • Termination-God will cut off people to save a nation.
  • Someone told one day that this process was similar to correction process for employees under their hire. Very interesting.
  • Is the God of Bible that I have described a Good God by the definition of  the Unknown Prophet?
  • The Book of Revelation is the description of Just God. Is a Just God a Good God?

 I refuse to embrace any mindset that celebrates bad news as a sign of the times and a necessary requirement for the return of Jesus.

  •  Jesus himself speaks of rumors of war, earthquakes etc… prior to His return.  If that is the drum beat of His return, why shouldn’t  we celebrate. The reinforcements are coming, Hallelujah Amen.
  • The Book of Revelation talks in detail of the wraths of God that will be unleashed on Earth.
  •  This is why we need a Savior, we can’t  get it right, we don’t have to celebrate it but as I look around evil is spreading.  The issue is everyone is trying to figure out when Jesus is coming back.  The only thing we can go on is what He said. Thus the speculation.
  • We see the horrors of Godless nations expanding. It seems the time is approaching for His return.
  • While on one  hand I am disgusted with what is put on display and I also Hope that I can witness that great day of His return, but according to the Bible, regardless of  the Unknown Prophet’s belief it is going to get worse before it gets better.  None know how much worse.
  • It is like hearing a car pull up in the driveway as a kid, knowing that my grandparents were going to show up any minute.  I hear a car and I run to the window yelling they’re here only to see the postman dropping the mail off.  I ran around the house saying their here, their here only to have to wait some more.
  • Is the Book of Revelation irrelevant, instead of the bowls of wrath ushering in Jesus, is it the church without spot or blemish that will usher in Christ?

 I am opposed to any doctrinal position that pushes the promises of God into a time zone that can’t be obtained in my generation and therefore takes away any responsibility I have to believe God for them in my lifetime.

  •  This seems to be a doctrinal position that pushes the promises of God into a time zone of His choosing or control.  (Again a Dominionism mindset.)
  • I have to wonder based on everything we are learning are these promises ones laid out in the Bible or new ones imparted to him from new revelation that does not have a Biblical foundation, does this contradict the following verse.
    • Matthew 24:36-40   36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
  • Here are some promises of God, are there other promises he is referring to?
    • God has promised to supply every need we have. The Bible says: “But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus”.  Philippians s 4:19.
    • God has promised that His grace is sufficient for us. (II Corinthians 12:9). It is through an obedient faith that we have access into the grace of God according to Romans 5:2.
    • God has promised that His children will  not be overtaken with temptation. Instead, He assures us that a way of escape will be provided. This promise is recorded in I Corinthians 10:13.
    • God has promised us victory over death. He first resurrected Jesus by way of assuring our resurrection.
    • God has promised that all things work together for good to those who love and serve Him faithfully (Romans 8:28). It may be difficult for us to see and understand how this is accomplished at times, but God has promised it, and He will deliver.
    • God has promised that those who believe in Jesus and are baptized for the forgiveness of sins will be saved. (Read Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38).
    • God has promised His people eternal life (John 10:27,28).

Content used  from www.bible.ca.- 7 Promises of God.

 Round Three

So what did God tell me?   I heard, “The reason they can say all of this and doesn’t contradict  Jesus, is they believe Jesus has already returned and passed Judgment on His Church. “

The heavens opened up and it all made sense. If they hold a belief that Jesus’ judgment happened in 70 AD, they believe they are working out of the revelation they are receiving now and never contradict  warnings  Jesus gave etc… They can also believe that Jesus has already judged His church and the only judgment left  is Jesus’ next return to judge man only.  Which by the way, as it is written excludes the church, as seen below.

Final Eschatology Viewpoint from his Website:

 I don’t believe that the last days are a time of judgment, nor do I believe God gave the church the right to call for wrath for sinful cities. There is a day of judgment in which GOD will judge man, not us.

If you notice every viewpoint starts with the word “I”.  Do we need to further explain. Just by the eight points above I can show this covers Dominion, New Apostolic Reformation and a portion of Replacement Theology beliefs.  All mixed into one so far.

If we follow men who  operate without a thought of judgment,  they can begin to think nothing they say or do is wrong.  They can believe the love of Jesus is so strong in fact that it precludes them from any further judgment. If they believe their heart is always in the right place, by their own yardstick , have a ministry that reinforces that thought, everything they do is in the name of Jesus, what happens in a moment of weakness when Satan finally steps in and calls in the note once this false doctrine has been propagated.  What powers and principalities are feeding the message, I can say it is not going to help spread the Kingdom everyone is hoping for.

What is the collateral damage? The Body of Christ. God can defend Himself but who suffers, His Children! As a matter of fact this might empower the Devil, the Unknown Prophet chooses to not empower by his core eschatological value #1.

If I interpreted the revelation correctly, they hold what is called a Partial Preterist (look it up) view of the world, believe that the Book of Revelation is an allegory  which  refers to the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, (even though many scholars believe Revelation was written between 80-89 AD proving this theology is based on false beliefs), that Jesus in fact came in 70 AD to judge his church and establish the new covenant through the destruction instead of his resurrection and the imparting of the Holy Spirit,  that we are now in the millennial reign of Christ (1000 year reign noted in the Bible is not to be taken literally), that the only judgment left is for man, (not the church). The church has already been judged by Christ and we are  now the New Israel that replaces to old Israel (God withdrew His Promise to the nation of Israel), Christ did what He did on the cross, our job now is to build out the new Earth like Heaven, place all enemies of God under His feet, before Jesus will come again…..

Isn’t it interesting, if you choose to do the research and learn about this as well, this movement takes a lot of the Bible literally, but to make the rest of it fit into the their doctrine, all of a sudden the parts that don’t support their beliefs are an allegory or should be considered a past event.

http://closingstages.net/2013/03/23/eschatology-is-victorious-not-partial-preterist/

Where does that leave us? There are only  a couple of questions left if what you have already read isn’t enough to give you pause.

  •  What is what is their view on Israel?  Has the nation of Israel been cast off or are we grafted in?
    • If the answer is the former, Do you believe what God said when He said,  in Genesis 12:3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.”
    • If they are going to Influence the influential by his own words, and believe God cast off Israel then it only follows that they  will influence the gov’t to change its foreign policy towards Israel and leave her stranded.  Why should we put the US at risk physically, if God disowned Israel? (It is a fair question.)
    • God will save her, but then go back to Gen 12:3.  You are responsible and held accountable to what you sow into. (Yes, you could be judged for it)
  •  This movement  believes that Christ will  only return once the church is fully established on Earth.  What happens, when through their influencing of the influential,  they can’t get past the 10%(folks like me) to fulfill the requirement  for Christ’s return who are yelling, NO NOT THIS!!!!
    • By their own requirement it has to be fulfilled before Christ returns, It would be absolutely frustrating to believe that Christ won’t come back because of a few hold outs.  All of a sudden it puts the bowls of wrath and power in their hands and not  God’s, since the book of Revelation has been fulfilled  to make way for Christ.
    • If you think I am off target, go back in history in the name of God and the likes, many men have been removed who have gotten in man’s way to his final destination.  If I recall the Jews influenced Pilate to have Jesus crucified.  We know the story, it is still true and it did happen.
    • If the world doesn’t submit to this authority to bring the kingdom on earth through the goodness of the message, how exactly is this accomplished:, only two things
      • It will never happen and Jesus will never come back.
      • Gain enough political strength to force the outcome that is needed.
    • Today is about the goodness of the message, through miracle signs and wonders and a no judgment, what will it be tomorrow?
    • Jesus spread the good news himself and was rebuffed, most of the apostles were martyred.  To believe now that this message will all of a sudden change the hearts of all men, isn’t even biblical.

Note-this is not just one church, this is a collection of leaders working in unison, forming  a sort of trust who believe they know what’s best for  the church.

 What can be the only logical step be if the book of Revelation is irrelevant and God’s judgment on the church has past and they are responsible to get the church in the proper condition before Christ’s return.  History has already archived that story and it is still being written in the Middle East, just listen to the news. 

As God’s children who are faithful to our Lord we know the price He paid to ransom us.   If additionally this movement or pockets within it, believes that Israel is cast off, and if you follow these types of churches and its teachings, do you stay or do you part ways in view of the Truth?  Only you can answer that, but as difficult as it was to write this knowing how many people I love follow these men, I love God more.

When we can get caught up in what we want the world to look like instead of seeing it for what it actually is,  we can start to deceive ourselves.  The Bible outlines what the world was, is  and what it will be. It  shows how it is  resolved through Jesus Christ. He set all of this in motion at the cross, and demonstrated His Victory over death.

We need to follow Jesus, and what he said. When man starts tinkering and thinking he has it all figured out he becomes religious,   and when it does not play out the way he would like, man tries to force solutions. Nothing will change that. We can be perfected in Jesus, but we will never be Jesus.  He is our High Priest.  This  is why we need a Savior and never forget the victory in the cross. God provided  Holy Spirit to lead, guide and direct us.  Our call is to be holy like God and listen to what he is asking us to do.

If anything I said rings true, ask and find out for yourself if this is the truth and ask Holy Spirit.  For me it’s  NOT THIS!!

Yes I can’t wait for Christ return to rid the world of evil as he has promised, until then I will carry the message under his guidance and count on his promises to be fulfilled in my life, through my obedience.

Who’s in Your Corner?

I Love and Need you Father.

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